[Kirasath] Rant's Guide to <Demon Lord>

Discussion in 'Support Guides' started by Rant, Oct 7, 2014.

  1. Rant

    Rant New Member

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    Disclaimer - I iz a noob, nothing to see here, move along

    **** update dec 2014 ****
    The below guide was before this update, deamon lord has been nerfed some. So much for support geting love lol gotta love the way one of the least used heros gets punched in the junk ..
    The group 30% dmg boost has been removed from the pet, cut in half and added to the heal as a passive.. Grrrrr so max dmg boost is 15% now and comes later in the game.
    The haste buff is slightly less effective now that haste is not stacking on the total, but just the base. Everyone else with haste skills got bumped, not demon lord..

    Might update this later but waiting for the next update to see what they do next before I spend much time on this.

    ***********************

    To start out with, I have to admit I love this hero but I hate playing against him.
    So its in my best interest not to post my tips but so many other people have helped me with other chars I want to give back to the community. In general I do not recommend any support class unless your 40 with some good tablets. Not that it can't be played well, but supports are less forgiving on mistakes than say, guardians

    One more note, learning to play the healer gobbie well is good reflex training for the lord with the target changes enemy/ friend and fast casting and player position with team mates ect..

    So this guy sucks nobody should ever play him, no need to nerf anything, these are not the droids your looking for.. ;)
    Use this against me and I hate you all!!! /smootches
    Now on to the meat! (cause we cant have our pudding yet)


    !!!!! Demon lord !!!!!!!

    What he brings to the team- Damage, haste, heal

    Enemies get to lose heath to dot, but not fast enough to shock them into running ,leaving around 50% health for fighters to mob up easy
    Teammates should have 30% more dmg, one gets 40% haste and 20% runspeed buff and heal lovin

    Again, you reduce enemy hpts, and buff damage / throw heals, throw haste. you need to be good at all 4 things.

    !!!!! Skills !!!!!
    Dot;
    This is the biggest damage skill in game I know of. Dot can hit multiple enemies and ticks for 12 seconds.. hit+12 ticks = 13 with only 3 main dmg items ticks for 120 and that is 1560 dmg.. (max build is def more I see 180 a tick sometimes so ~2340 (seen 220 before just talking avg games )) across multiple enemies (or whole team) for a single cast.. hitting 2 is pretty common and that is over 3k for a single cast in a normal game.

    Fun thing to note, even if they port back it keeps ticking for the full time. so tag them as they port so if they run out of base, their health is still dropping till it wears off lol.
    I see huge numbers for total dmg on the replay screen 500K+ on long games
    But the absolute best part is that damage doesn't show numbers above the targets head so they have no idea how bad it is and in the middle of a fight might not see it on them at all till they are running for their life.. oh too late :) /doctor evil laugh (I really do enjoy those last moments of desperation far too much)

    Haste;
    So max level its 40% attack speed and 20% run speed
    its short lived (10 sec?) but late game can basically spam cast it and stay mostly hasted.
    You have to haste someone before you can heal so your haste target is your heal target. I select the person most likely to be targeted first, or Jombra but that is another story... early game I blow alot of mana using this but situationally its worth it.. late game its on like donkey kong

    Heal;
    This is a deceptive one, starts out low like 80hpts, most games its around 450 at 15. I have seen it as high as 650 and with the boneflame wand I can cast 2 heals per 1 haste.. so I think its a 6 sec recast.
    I say its deceptive because it levels up very nicely with magic attack power and because people tend to watch the health bars race to zero and gauge the timing of who will reach 0 first..
    Giving someone haste and dropping a heal really shifts the balance of a fight and can sucker in someone thinking they have it.. once they see they don't normally the dot will get them even if they blink / run away
    Also saved alot of people trying to run with it.

    Pet;
    The pet is a secret buff I never see anyone talk about, 10%, 20% and 30% "Increases Magical attack and Physical attack of all nearby allies" Not positive on range for allies but seems to be pretty far. Range has no bearing on the caster of the pet, I have been on other side of map and still had the buff show. With good teamwork thats like adding another player worth of dmg.

    His attack also seems to have a slow effect. I never really depend on it or specifically try to use it, its just kinda there for me. He has over 2k hpts and he does damage so there is that too.

    He is also handy for Tower killing (The towers will target him first when they run out of minions, before targeting heros) So I go up to tower with some minions and a friend to haste and with a clear recast timer on the pet, when the current pet is about to drop dead, cast new pet and keep banging on towers. Generally lives thru till next minion wave makes tower go back to minion killing. Tower should die sometime there.. Only drawback is it does cost you the pet buff if the second one dies but sometimes its worth it.



    !!!!Overview of play style!!!!
    (there are many play styles but this one is mine, without me it is useless, without it, I am useless )

    long bomb early game ( I dont risk melee early unless its a sure thing )
    If they are good, this is a delay , forcing them to recall to heal or face my team with 30-50% health gone, I let my teammates get the kill unless the enemy dies to dot while running.
    If they are bad its just easy money =)

    I get gold in the lanes off minions mostly. I stay back from the fight but I drop dots as fast as recast allows, same with haste. I try to let the carry get some gold early game though , dont gold hog and shut down your beefsticks. Your support, you need your dps to be swinging the big pipe. You will get yours don't worry..

    haste / heal buddy ( my favorite is a good jombra but any fighter esp cham )
    You want haste but to get it you have to cast on someone else. So dont solo cause trying to click pet to haste is a pain and half the time makes you run to a spot on the ground instead of selecting him.. (if you are running solo keep pet targeted so as soon as you see enemy you can haste up and either attack or run)
    This lets you run away from most everyone, or chase down anyone


    !!! Build stuff N junk !!!

    My current build choice ( honestly kinda generic caster / support, the math peeps can most likely max it out better )

    Tablets;
    Rage /killing anything gives 3% hpt back surprisingly nice to get 300 hpts back from a minion wave with leach and this. ( I hit minions and heros with the dot many times cause they walk down the middle for some reason)

    Elder /12% of magic dmg = physical def ( checked a replay and not even max build, but lev 15 like 18 min into game I have 493 attack and 51.2 + 59.2 physical def I normally dont look but I have seen 900 attack before ) In essence like raven mail without it taking up a slot

    Favor /any heal I get, a hero within 10' with lowest hpt get 40% (since the heal hits me as well as my target it can add another 40% to my target or heal someone else and get 3 people some green number action ) Drawback is that it only helps if I need to be healed, if I am full heath its negated.


    loaded with
    pierce magic defense (magic armor can counter dot dmg quite a bit)
    skill cooldown


    talents ( again, generic for mage / support guess someone could tweak but I like it, not really going into mad detail on it though)
    I use 26 in mage, cooldown, leach, skill pen
    14 in support run speed, bonus hp/mp when level, gold from soldiers



    Level order
    1 DOT (meat and potatoes )
    2 haste (helps early fights more than the 80pt heal =)
    1 DOT
    3 Heal ( Good to have, it scales with magic dmg pretty well and if you dont get it at level 4 you have to wait till level 8 )
    1 DOT
    4 PET (every time you have the option to give your team 10% more dmg you take it)
    1 DOT
    2 or 3 (depends if heal or haste is being used more effectively, depends on teamwork ect most games I keep them even but level heal first)
    4 PET (at level 8 start watching pet recast timer and your xp bar, dont cast a pet if your about to level and get a better one)
    2 or 3 Heal or Haste
    2 or 3 Heal or Haste
    4 PET
    2 or 3 Heal or Haste
    2 or 3 Heal or Haste
    2 or 3 Heal or Haste

    !!!! Items !!!!!
    dmg , dmg and more dmg
    since I stay back from fight I dont do the normal 100 hpt items
    Also never been in a spot where armor would of kept me alive, the fighters just get too big, better to dot and run. The tablet gives me what I need there.

    Acolyte Staffx2
    enchanters ring
    boots of haste
    sapphire amulet
    Upgrade to boneflame wand (so you can get 2 heals per haste and faster dot recast + mana for haste junkie action)
    ruby ring
    ruby ring

    (from that point I choose upgrades)
    leviathans cloak (reduces magic def by 20 pts flat)
    staff of vigor ( 15% pierce magic armor and 250 hpts )

    Ring upgrades go to, (one of these I will double up on normally if the game goes that long)
    Staff of rectitude
    searing orb

    So unless I am just mr moneybags I have
    Leviathans Cloak
    searing orb
    boneflame wand
    boots
    staff of rectitude
    open slot ( orb most times for hpts and dmg)
    might bump the cloak into arrogance cloak too or loli if there is no team to haste

    !!!! Tips !!!!!

    ZOOM OUT START OF GAME yes you can zoom out just a little do it. DO IT
    ( i know silly but some people never have)

    Haste as you leave the regen fountain in base, free 10 sec runspeed buff, for you and friend.

    I normally run around with my active target being my heal buddy and my dot arrow dragged out ready to fire.. you will auto attack nearby foes without having to hard target them, and you can throw your dot by letting up to press haste..
    Or just throw the dot and auto attack minions with your haste buddy still hard targeted, point is you dont need to target enemy as often unless your in for melee action on heros.

    The biggest difference in good vs bad demon lords is the ability to haste/heal quickly and consistently, by having your buddy targeted prefight you dont have the lag of switching targets. Get them addicted to haste, they will follow you like a puppy

    If you play demon lord and your don't haste/ heal , you would be more effective on a different toon, the gobbie healer is good training for learning how to keep ally targeted while still attacking and throwing long bombs

    Hiding in a cloud does not stop the DOT, so check clouds with it (funny as hell to dot a whole team trying to ambush) and they still attack cause they have health right at that moment... in 12 seconds though....ah good times

    Got to lead fire if your going to kill men... (for women and children, you just dont lead as much)
    It is rarely a good idea to directly target and shoot the dot without drag casting it.
    Also get use to the run paths on maps.. for instance, toss it on sides of towers, they are common spots for people to run through, work the angles

    Target choices
    Generally armor really counters alot of your dot damage, tanks are poor choices esp clops , the rest are fair game, but watch your damage numbers and if someone is only ticking for a third of what the others are ...well hopefully you get the idea. I throw against everyone (tanks too) but I select the best (or most )target available at the time.
    Late game full build I can sometimes kill fighters like elf and hunter with a single dot.

    When you die your dot drops to like 20 a tick, if you use a respawn rune it goes back to full damage, so if you in a fight and no way out, but he is low on health, dot him , and respawn asap. Get the kill.

    Okay now you can have your pudding..

    -Rant

    ** edit **
    did a game, mid game lev 14 10.2K spent (rolling support not gold hogging)
    boneflame wand, leviathans cloak, staff of vigor, ruby ring, orb with leech (need to lookup name)
    2015 hpt. phys def 48.9+44
    pierce thru 39.5 +0.15%
    14% leech

    swinging for 267
    dot for 98 = 1274 a hit
    heal for 398 (7 sec recast, can get 2 off before haste wears)

    !!!! Max level (amusing leech game) !!!!
    searing orb
    boneflame wand
    staff of rectitude x 4

    all dmg items no boots, no pots ect
    hpts 2797 phys def 51.2+105.7
    19.5 + 030% pierce magic def
    69% Leech
    881 magic attack


    Swinging for 526
    DoTs hitting for 190 a tick, = 2470 a hit (39 a tick leaching per target)
    Heal for 603 (again can drop 2 on same hasted target in 7 sec)
    (add in a good Fish player we are both half health, his talent 35% heal bonus 850 ish heal + my tablet giving 40% of the heal hitting me close to 1100 a cast, 7 seconds 2200 heal possible)
     
  2. Mixar

    Mixar Well-Known Member

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    One major thing this guide was against was attacking early game. Kirisath is a grand damage dealer early game such as witch and/or gambler making him more use full early game then him used late game. The dng kirisath can do with his 12 sec dot, heal, and physical dmg in general can help him be one of the best melee harassers during laning phase
     
  3. Rant

    Rant New Member

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    Thanks for the feedback and taking the time to read it =)
    I agree, he is a great damage dealer but, I left that point a little vague. So not trying to change your play style just adding a note, will update the guide in the future, looking to add pics ect too..

    Why I don't;
    It can work but its more risky, with my build he is pretty squishy early and really.. going toe to toe with a well built fighter, guardian, or most mages 1 on 1 before lev.. 9 ish normally doesn't end well if they are good. The demon lord only has 1 skill that does direct damage and its not burst.. They should end the fight in 3-4 seconds unless they are lame.

    Also since I take blink and port instead of say, heal and fireball I could also get popped like that. since early game those skills have a bigger effect / percent wise.
    Many skills, talents, and tablets are mathematically better in the under level 7 game vs 8-15 game.. I stack my stuff with the end game for 5 v 5 maps and early game for 3v3 but I prefer the 5v5 maps for demon lord so I stack with late game bonuses more and angle my gear to work with it.

    I play tight and don't give up kills easy, I do melee some but only when its "safe" and doing a write up on what is safe is way bigger subject.

    For me not dieing > than getting a kill, so I stay back and "snipe" from max range and wear them down by kiting (and getting minion waves with the same dots normally by working angles, so gold farming )
    I also like my carries to get the early kills, I get so much mid and late game I am never short of gold or xp unless the team is just getting powned. Even when I am trying to give the carries the kill the DoT gets alot on its own mostly from runners.

    many games I have 0 deaths, 4-6 deaths is a lot for me.

    Most games around level 8 I buy my first item from earned gold. and thats the 2200 magic dmg ring for the boneflame wand, kicks the dot from like 30 to 50-60 a tick, that is when I start being more aggressive, even if they do kill me I can respawn and normally get the kill from my DoT. Around lev 10-12 I start becoming the main threat on the team and they are forced to target me first over the carry.

    So the first 3 levels I am decent dmg but since I hold off on gear till 2200 gold my effectiveness is less (lev 4-8 ish) toe to toe fighting (many other classes will upgrade at 1100 ish) and with most other popular chars having multiple burst damage skills they just do more dmg on a shorter timeline, I drag out the fight by kiting to move the dps timeline advantage more my way.

    If i was to melee early game I would want spec out differently talent/ tablet wise and do more of a mage item build. it can be done but it would reduce me in the late game and I spend more time playing at level 15 than I do 1-7 combined.

    I am interested in an early game build for 3v3 games though.
    Thanks for the reply too!
     
  4. Mixar

    Mixar Well-Known Member

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    Ahh, and your welcome for the reply :D My playstyle is kinda passive-aggressive, so when I know things are going to go good, I sit there and farm and when an enemy tries to poke me I just stay there and it scares them off due to them thinking I've got a plan of rushing.

    I activate the DOT (12 dmg early game about) and heal (about 115 per heal) just so that I can poke them out and everytime they do dmg to me, I just heal with the 3rd skills active.

    Since kirisath gets kind of weak late-game compared to other heroes, I just take it as my role early game to do as much to benefit my team as soaking all the attention and getting assists so that I can feel like I did my part late game when its the rest of my team's time to shine.
    Once the lobby hits about lvl 8, that's when his DOT should be atleast 20-30 dmg (in my opinion) to keep up with everyone else's dmg and hp. His demon spawn and demon pact are the ones that are pretty useful for him and his team late game if his team doesn't have a significant advantage over the enemy.

    Usually I don't die either unless sort-to-say my team doesn't catch on to my plan or the enemy gets a plan. That's when its good to just sit back like you said, and watch the hp slowly dwindle down from your scythe skill.

    Good job on the Guide in general though! :)
     
  5. piyoni

    piyoni New Member

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    i love this hero

    IMO he is not good in 3v3 map. Easy to kill in lane. you can not grow well :(. i think he is one of the worst regarding 3v3 map. hugging the tower does not help most times.

    however he is good in 5v5 map... he can hold one lane forever :) ıf there is a good ganker than you grow quickly.

    anyway most players learn to escape from dot.
     
  6. Herald_of_xotli

    Herald_of_xotli Active Member

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    Jajajaj what ? What builds u been using man. I am very good with kirasath and always win 3v3 maps. Yes he is bad in middle lane you want to always bee on opposite side were a sneaky bastard on the side is hiding to get you. to counter this, jaguar tablet is good with him cause u can always use the bushes as escape route as it gives u speed when u leave it. I am thinking of making a kirasath guide myself but dont habe the time to make all the fancy pics and what not
     
  7. illusioh

    illusioh New Member

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    I love kirasath, i play he with DoT > Heal & with 5Supports Talent for Speed, 12Talents Tank and 23Mage Talents.

    Think he can win all time midlines 1on1. Yeah he dies really fast, but the DoT with the long reach let you the Option to farm even if you play 1vs2.
    Love the matches against Melina's, if she catch you early game, you are death but you have more reach and after 2 DoT's she need heal or is free food with the next DoT.

    Kirasath is all about positioning, so no noob friendly hero. And even for good Hoc players he is hard to master, but at good hands, he is a very powerful weapon.
     
  8. ThinIce

    ThinIce Well-Known Member

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    Arrogance doesn't proc on kirasath. Shouldn't keep that on the list.

    My tablets are these: Elder, Soul Eater, Whispering

    Item build: Leviathan, Searing, Boneflame, Boots, Storm Cloak (the passive with minion makes it a real danger to close up fights), Rectitude
     
  9. Loecypher

    Loecypher New Member

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    I don't know if this has been stated but the recent update lets his 3 skill passive boost his golems AA as well, max lvl golem does 99 dmg. Also remember his golems dmg cannot be reduced by armor of any sort.
     
  10. pureslayers

    pureslayers New Member

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    gets an nice kill streak with his dot XD
     
  11. OP Battle Mage

    OP Battle Mage I am a hore

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    Remove Elder for Desecration or Assistance.
     

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