No counter for health stacking

Discussion in 'Nerfs and Buffs' started by Ranger74352, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. Ranger74352

    Ranger74352 Member

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    Aug 7, 2015
    I really like your ideas. They seem like some good alternatives to my items. That said, there are 2 potential issues I can see with them. First of all, as one of the other commenters mentioned, the condition for triggering the passive may need to be changed a little to ensure it won't be proc'd against low health targets as well. The way you described it makes it sound more like something that would be triggered against people with extra defence, rather than against people with a lot of health. The other problem is that, even without the passive effects, both of these items seem to have pretty good stats, making them desirable even against enemies who aren't stacking health. Despite those 2 issues though, I really like your ideas for the way the passives deal their max health damage. They're interesting alternatives to my own ideas.

    Looking over your post also gave me a few ideas about my own items. I realised that the max health damage percentages on them were a little bit too high, when one factors in the other stats the items provide, so I've tweaked them a little:

    •Physical %Max Health Item:
    -40% attack speed
    -Passive (Unique): When attacking a hero with over 600 more max health than you, your attacks will deal additional physical damage equal to 4% of the target's max health, and have 4% HP Harvest.
    *Cost: 3000 Gold
    *Build: Wings of Paradise + 1600 Gold

    •Magical %Max Health Item:
    -50 Magical attack
    -Passive (Unique): When your spells hit heroes with over 600 more max health than you, they will take additional magical damage equal to 8% of their max health, and your cooldowns will be reduced by 1.5 seconds. AoE spells apply 50% of these effects, but DoT spells cannot apply these effects at all.
    *Cost: 3000 Gold
    *Build: Brawler's Lament + 1450 Gold

    Let me know what you think of these changes, I'd love to hear your thoughts on them :).
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016
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  2. MyLastDreams

    MyLastDreams Well-Known Member

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    Sep 25, 2014
    Holy crap, an actual discussion....
     
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  3. Riley12301

    Riley12301 Gambler OP ♠️♦️♣️♥️ Staff Member

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    Mar 18, 2016
    I think the issue is not as much with too much hp, but the defense items like hades armor and valkyrian robes, etc... It's the hp and defense in combination that really causes an issue. A hero with 5k hp isn't as much of a challenge but with max defenses it becomes an entirely different problem.

    I just took your work and changed it into something I liked more, and the lack of harvest items aside from divinity sword and Savage boots is really a downer, then again with the sheer insane amount of harvest they gave kagax, he would probably be overpowered if they added an additional harvest item.

    Your ideas are good, and we definitely need a %max health item or two, hoc meta has always been bruisers/tanks, the only heroes I think would not apply to that would be our current op heroes like Meng, kurz, and frost, etc... IMO those heroes need balancing, and then they could institute a few items like those. Good ideas though, I like to see new ideas even if others aren't very supportive of them. ^_^
     
  4. Riley12301

    Riley12301 Gambler OP ♠️♦️♣️♥️ Staff Member

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    Mar 18, 2016
    I forgot to clarify, I was thinking 75% of BASE DAMAGE. And 10 seconds is a long time in a team fight, really you'd only be able to use the passive effect on 1 enemy 1 time. Also if the item were to be implemented, they would have to have a limit on how many teammates can use the item on a single hero, otherwise 5* 15% health would be 75% of the tanks health, and that's not really fair.
     
  5. Ranger74352

    Ranger74352 Member

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    Aug 7, 2015
    I totally agree with what you're saying. Defence certainly compounds the difficulty of dealing with a high hp target. The only thing is, there are already items for dealing with defence in the game. I think that any new max hp items should be exclusively focused on dealing with health, rather than both defence and health. We don't want them to be too op or must-buy kind of items. That way, each "anti-tank" item will have a specific place and purpose in the game, without any of them being so strong that they're good in all situations.

    Also, on another note, I do agree with you that the lack of harvest items feels bad :(. That's why I wanted to include harvest on my physical %max health item's passive ^_^. It also makes balancing a little easier, since the harvest allows the %max health damage to be lower, so that health doesn't become useless, but it gives you extra sustain against higher health targets, so health won't be impossible to deal with.

    Last but not least, thank you very much for your support of my post and my ideas <3! We need more people like you in the HOC community:).

    P.S. If you think Ling, Kurz and Frost are bad when they're not stacking hp, you should see them when they do :'(. It's a nightmare. Two or three damage items, and then into Stirring Soul and full tank. It's bs like that which pushed me to make this post in the first place, lol.
     
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